Double Standards

[whitefire]

Okay, so an interesting thing happened to me today and I'm attempting to analyze how I feel about it.

I was walking through a large shopping complex in the middle of the city on my way home, listening to my iPod and generally ignoring the world. Three teenage girls (16-17ish) were walking towards me, going the opposite direction. One of the girl ran ahead of her friends and, as she passed me, she slapped me on the ass and ran off giggling. Her friends rolled their eyes and walked past me without saying a word.

At the time I didn't think anything of it, but as I kept walking it occurred to me what a double standard there is for that kind of behavior. If I'd run past, slapped her on the ass, and run off I would have been arrested. Hell, it was a fairly busy day in the shopping complex, so I wouldn't have been surprised if some guy would have stopped me and put my lights out had I done this. I would have been labeled a pervert and charged by the police. Yet because a girl did it she can just giggle and run off without repercussions.

I'm interested in others opinions on this topic. Is this a societal double-standard? Is this sexism where the guy's get the sort end of the stick for once? Or am I overreacting and should I just giggle vacuously and be flattered?

[Erika]

Wow, it's been forever since we actually HAD a topic in this section.

Short answer: no, you're not overreacting, and yes, it is a double standard.

Obviously I can only comment on how things are in the US, but you can apply it as you see fit to your location. I think of two major contributers to the problem that caused your situation.

The first is that there is an expectation on men to be welcoming of sexual overtures. So the idea is that it's ok to touch you because you're a guy, and guys like to be touched. To some extent, this may be true. In general, the men I've known tend to be less protective of having women in their personal space than the opposite. Of course this does NOT mean that anyone has the right to assume that they can put their hands on someone uninvited.

The other is that there is a misconception that because women are generally smaller than men, and because they are generally (and historically) on the receiving end of sexual aggression and oppression, that they CANNOT be the aggressors themselves. This leads to everything from "women can't rape men" to "women can't be sexist because pushing back against the patriarchy is rebellion against the system, not being oppressive back." BS all the way around.

Of course, there is a third contributor, and I think in this case, it's probably the strongest: That girl was an idiot. She was a stupid kid acting like a stupid kid and wasn't thinking. The possibility that you might consider it an assault probably didn't enter her mind. I'm not saying that this excuses her actions. She definitely deserves a swift kick in the ass. But chances are there was no actual malice intended.

[fauvem]

Erika covered most of what I was going to say. I'd say your reacting, not over or under, just plain old reacting. I'd probably answer that your confused/conflicted because you needed to analyze how I feel about it. Logically thinking about illogical thinking tends to go to strange places.

[Lore]

Yep. Hands down a double standard. Even more so when you consider what would have happened if you had decided on the spot that you felt offended and decided to state your unhappiness. You might have yelled at her and in that instant, you would have been the bad guy to everyone around you, even to the people who saw what she did.

Of course maybe you have better self control than I do because if someone did that to me in passing, I would have yelled and I might have tried to punch the guy too. But me doing so would be acceptable because I'm a woman being harassed. You would not likely have been afforded the same leniency.

Bah. It's all a big offensive mess, on both sides.

[mayhemzero]

Yeah, it is a double standard. The difference occurs in how the person who's smacked on the ass responds. Some guys (myself included, I'll admit) would just blow it off. Some girls (most notably my close friends) would blow it off, too. It just depends on what your personal beliefs are. We, as human beings, have a natural tendency to want to defend our bodies, but some people don't see this kind of attack as an attack. The vast majority of girls would perceive this kind of attack as an unforgivable attack, I think. I mean, I don't know, obviously, because I'm not all that experienced with other people, let alone girls. However, that kind of action can be regarded by society as reprehensible. It's a double standard to be sure, but there's really no way to rectify the unjustness of the situation.

[johan591]

I want girls to slap my ass ... just saying ... Okay no, I don't, it happened once and I stared at the girl with so much contained anger that she apologized right away. Thing is, she might have done that cuz she though you were cute. She should have told you "Hey, you're cute, let's go have a coffee or you know, do the bomshicaboom dance in the nearest private place" or something like that. Okay maybe not something like that but ... How come I get confused about what I wanted to say in the first place? Damn I hate that.

Okay. She was wrong. Period. Damn

[davidj]

Jun 1, 2010 0:05:54 GMT -5 whitefire said:

Is this a societal double-standard?

Yes, of course it's a societal double-standard that this behaviour is regarded more seriously when it isn't coming from a teenaged girl. But note that it isn't actually _accepted_ behaviour. Even her peers were eye rolling.

[faerieknight]

Just one of many things which I find reprehensible. There's nothing I can do about it, but such double standards really bug me. I mean, why is it okay for one group to do something wrong, but it's not okay for another group to do the exact same thing.

Another example being the N-word. If a white person uses it, they are racist and hate people with a darker skin color. But it's okay for a 'colored' person to use the word? What makes it okay in that case?
Yes, the N-word originally was used for 'friend' among slaves. But I doubt anyone who uses it regularly actually knows that.

Back on topic, I personally have a sort of "strike the offender" reflex. It's seriously ingrained in me. Last time I had a woman slap my rear end, she ended up with a black eye. Multiple people saw what happened.

While no one really took too great offense to my reflexive backhand, I did get flack for defending my personal space. Yeah, striking someone put me in the wrong to an extent. But the reflex was built up from actually having to defend myself for years from bullies. But no one cared that she had slapped my rear.

If I'd have done so, I'd probably have been lynched.

[wowdude]

i'd give ya s*** too dude.

violence is only acceptable in self defense equal to the force used. shoving her away is one thing. punching her in the face is assault.

that'snot a normal reaction. you should probably see someone about that.

[faerieknight]

I realize violence is bad. And I've worked for years to get rid of that reflex. The event had happened back in high school, when things were at their worst. Just today some woman slapped my rear at the bank. Grr, fortunately I have reigned in my initial reactions. Not so happily, she actually got cheered by several people there. With me being congratulated for getting her attention.

Since when is it okay for a woman to harass a man?

[Erika]

General warning to play nice before things get out of hand.

It's not ok for women to harrass men. That's not being debated, as everyone in the discussion has already pretty much agreed on that.

As much as our culture still accepts discrimination and violence (sexual and otherwise) against women, there are also issues of sexual violence against men. Whether those issues are as widespread is up for discussion. I believe that there are fewer incidences, however underreporting of violent crimes as well as general ignorance are definitely part of the problem.

You certainly have an interesting sort of bad luck, considering that the last time this happened to you was more than ten years ago, and yet less than a day after your original post you were assaulted again.

[coriolis]

Jul 12, 2011 20:16:44 GMT -5 faerieknight said:

I realize violence is bad. And I've worked for years to get rid of that reflex. The event had happened back in high school, when things were at their worst. Just today some woman slapped my rear at the bank. Grr, fortunately I have reigned in my initial reactions. Not so happily, she actually got cheered by several people there. With me being congratulated for getting her attention.

Since when is it okay for a woman to harass a man?

As noted, it's NOT okay.

One also has to make sure that one's reaction does not exceed the offense, that's why backhands aren't considered an acceptable response. Or hauling out one's 9mm and letting fly. Your self-control this time around was commendable.

The girl got away with it. Lots of people, male and female alike, get away with things they shouldn't. And others become registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives for bullshit little infractions like ass-slapping in a mall. So, look on the bright side, it could have been much worse. The Law has no sense of humor. Life Ain't Fair. Deal With It.

[Celer]

I think that a relevant factor is that there is a default fear of violence for women. Not all women try to stay aware of their environment and live as if they should constantly be wary of rape(not going places alone, watching drinks carefully, etc), but the number who do massively outnumber the number of women who do. In general, in the US, there is an assumption that women are not a physical threat to men, and that men are to women. So, if you were to slap her ass, that would have been a physically threatening situation for her, whereas you weren't at all scared of her.

I don't want to say that that justifies it, but I do think that it is part of why it happens.