How Should Val React after the Coroner Incident?

[phantom64]

There's one aspect of this story that has always irritated me.

Val is a more than capable crime-fighter and has proven herself to be a dedicated hero...but due to the INSANE standards of Hero University she got stuck to being the sidekick to a too-dumb-to-live bimbo just because she didn't have d-cups, a supermodel figure, and a dead parents backstory or something.

...and she's never called anyone out on this system.

Yeah she vented to her disinterested roomate in college, and she's made passing grumbles because of it. But she's never gotten in any of the hero professors or "real heroes" faces about how much BS this system is. And that has always pissed me off.

Now she just got horribly tortured by an insane doctor. How should she react to this situation? I'll tell you: HURT AND PISSED OFF. I want to see her get into someones face about the fact that she was TORTURED and ALMOST KILLED, and she's still not considered "hero material" I want to see her tell off that Hero Agent guy about the fact she's almost died hundreds of times because her "hero" is next to useless, and why, despite the fact she's proven herself to be one of the most capable crime fighters in the series, is she stuck in the back row protecting someone who can't fight even the lamest of villains without her help.

Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if half of the villains in the Sidekickgirl-verse were ex-sidekicks who were sick of playing second bananna to some big breasted/six-pack moron just because they didn't have supermodel good looks.

Sorry, its just always irritated me how Val has never really called anyone in the "hero high command" about how BS their system of regulating heroes and sidekicks is.

[coriolis]

Except that the Powers That Be (how that for a multilevel pun?) can point to examples like Haze's promotion and say "See? The system works! If these things aren't happening for you, there must be a good reason. There's nothing on your record, should we be *looking* for that reason?"

That is very much an implied threat. Agent Grey and Agent Black, operators of the Hero and Villian Agencies, are twins -- or possibly even the same man; very closely intertwined, in any case. Who knows what degree of hardball they'll play to keep "order" and "maintain the system."

The question is: is the Coroner a registered Villian or merely a superpowered serial killer? Will villians be gunning for him now?

[faerieknight]

I think the main reason the hero crisis paperwork hasn't been filed for Val is... Illumina would have to file it. And that would require her to actually recognize the contribution Val makes. I'm not convinced Val does. I mean, she barely even knows how to use her own powers.

During the body swap story Val demonstrated how effective Illumina could be. She can't truly fly, but her hovering lets her jump down large distances safely. Her ability to glow can be used to blind opponents. How many other ways could her powers be used effectivly that Illumina never thought of?

It's clear that Val genuinely likes Illumina. And she doesn't seem to truly mind being a 'sidekick' most times. It's just when discrimination crops up, such as during the meeting regarding the vigilante that Val really complains.

That said, I'd imagine Val is going to want some serious payback. The real question isn't how should Val react. It's how should Illumina react. This is the second time something horrific happened to one of Illumina's sidekicks (that we know of). And this on top of the breakup with Drake?

[coriolis]

She may not remember much (or any) of it -- he was keeping her thoroughly sedated; she may have been in the "twilight" zone, able to react and respond, but not really "there". She may have thought seeing Kyoko's corpse was a nightmare until she fully woke up in the hospital after being rescued.

There are some questions that can't be answered because of the way the story was presented so far -- like, how MUCH time elapsed between The Coroner being distracted by the customer and wolfboy Wolf busting in and rescuing her? In her drugged-up state, Val certainly won't -- couldn't possibly -- know. Did Coroner return after she found Kyoko, re-dose her, and get for the additional samples he was after or didn't he? A further clue for the audience would have been WHERE wolfboy Wolf found her, on the floor or back on the slab. The creative team may know, but we don't, we were only shown him already holding her, camera 3rd-person following Storm Myst.

EDIT: to reflect Erika's corrections, below

[Erika]

--The creative team does know, believe it or not. It's usually safe to assume that we DO know whats going on and that we plan for certain levels of ambiguity.

--His codename is Wolf, not Wolfboy. Although normally such a nickname could be disregarded as simple flippancy, in a superhero comic the distinction is actually important. Wolfboy would imply that he's a sidekick.

--Her codename is Myst, not Storm. Storm is actually a Marvel character. You may have heard of her. Having elemental powers does not make her the same character, and in fact the two have nothing in common with their backstories, their personalities, or their appearances.

[billydaking]

Yeah, it's 3 a.m. Unemployment will bring insomnia.

Sorry, its just always irritated me how Val has never really called anyone in the "hero high command" about how BS their system of regulating heroes and sidekicks is.

That's because that's not the way Val works or is wired. From her own telling of her origin:

Despite my disenchantment with the system, I threw myself into school, figuring that I could buck it once I graduated.

That's pretty much what she's done. Despite her disgrunted beginning, MacKenzie really turned out to be the best arrangement for her: once she clued in, Illumina trusts her and lets her do her thing, and Val more or less acts the way she thought she would as a heroine. While she doesn't get the official recognition, she's obviously respected by other heroes for her work, and she's managed a solid group of sidekick friends who manage to work as well as a superhero team by themselves.

Also, she was paired with Illumina because she can't die--that's her power. So, the "almost died hundreds of times" really doesn't hold water for anybody, including her own approach to her life. Val's run-in with the Coroner was the first time she's actually nearly died.

The simple fact that Val's become extremely protective of Illumina should tell you that while she obviously will never completely accept her situation, there's real value in the way she's living and working right now (rather than being stuck "to a too-dumb-to-live bimbo").

One indication of her development as a character from a disgrunted and bitter sidekick shows in this exchange with some other heroes/sidekicks after her first date with Isauro, when she overheard them debating whether the vigilante was a disgrunted sidekick wanting the spotlight:

Val: "It's no excuse, but I wouldn't blame a sidekick for wanting to do more. A lot of us do."
Hero/Sidekick: "Then do it the right way, not this BS."
Val: "Exactly."

That said, Val's issues with the system probably aren't over; they'll just become more complicated. The aforementioned Isauro also is a victim of the system, and the relationship he and Val are trying is going to cause some issues down the line. There's also the matter of the vigilante, which might bring some of those issues to the surface.

But right now, I seriously doubt that Val's experience has her thinking about herself right now and where she is in her job, and I seriously doubt that she's going to ignore Kyoto's death and the fallout from that just so she can be hurt and pissed off about her sidekick status. If she does, she's a lousy hero.

[coriolis]

Aug 13, 2011 0:37:02 GMT -5 Erika said:

--The creative team does know, believe it or not. It's usually safe to assume that we DO know whats going on and that we plan for certain levels of ambiguity.

I'd rather suspected you'd at least had notes. The effectiveness of the intended ambiguities shows your skill as a writer. I'm just grumbling about not knowing.

Aug 13, 2011 0:37:02 GMT -5 Erika said:

--His codename is Wolf, not Wolfboy. Although normally such a nickname could be disregarded as simple flippancy, in a superhero comic the distinction is actually important. Wolfboy would imply that he's a sidekick.

It was intentionally lower-case "w" not to be a name or codename, but a shorthand descriptor of his power set, didn't feel like using his actual name, especially given I didn't have his partner's name either. For all I knew, he *was* a sidekick. Always two, there are, hero and sidekick. Haven't seen him before in scenes like the early hero briefing (at least not with his current hair?). Although, now that you mention it, the thought occurs to me that a sidekick would have faced stronger disapproval from the senior partner for excessive violence.

Aug 13, 2011 0:37:02 GMT -5 Erika said:

--Her codename is Myst, not Storm. Storm is actually a Marvel character. You may have heard of her. Having elemental powers does not make her the same character, and in fact the two have nothing in common with their backstories, their personalities, or their appearances.

Yes, I know who Storm is, thankyouverymuch, I just grabbed the handle as a tag from the bit of dialog "Storm's hot...". The name doesn't appear in the strip, I don't have access to your personal notes, I can't read your mind, how could I possibly know what her actual handle was?

If you're going to get annoyed at folks getting it wrong, at least put the correct facts out there somewhere so that there is at least a CHANCE to get it right...please?

(Now going back to correct Hero List thread, if it hasn't already been done...)

[billydaking]

If you're going to get annoyed at folks getting it wrong, at least put the correct facts out there somewhere so that there is at least a CHANCE to get it right...please?

Before this turns into a blow-up, I would point out a few things:

1. "Storm's hot" was obviously about the storm that was going on, not a person in particular and definitely not a handle. ("Storm's hot, Wolf. Rain's coming and I can have the fog ready to cover our exit.") Erika's perceived annoyance (I took it as a joke) easily could come from the idea that you actually thought she'd be uncreative and shortsighted enough to use a well-established superhero's trademarked name in her own comic for a hero/sidekick with similar powers.

2. Despite lower-casing "wolfboy," you were still using it as the character's name, so it's easy to understand if Erika thought that you thought it was his name. Considering that she did just provide his name right after his appearance, you should not be surprised she corrected that just in case and provided the reasoning why such a moniker would not work.

[tower015]

Aug 11, 2011 11:39:59 GMT -5 phantom64 said:

Now she just got horribly tortured by an insane doctor. How should she react to this situation? I'll tell you: HURT AND PISSED OFF. I want to see her get into someone’s face about the fact that she was TORTURED and ALMOST KILLED, and she's still not considered "hero material" I want to see her tell off that Hero Agent guy about the fact she's almost died hundreds of times because her "hero" is next to useless, and why, despite the fact she's proven herself to be one of the most capable crime fighters in the series, is she stuck in the back row protecting someone who can't fight even the lamest of villains without her help.

I kind of figured that after all the crap her body has been put through up to this point, that she'd have made some adjustment to being in pain. I can appreciate the sentiment, but if we took Batman as an example, the things that really hit home to him were much more intense than the day to day horrors inflicted upon him. The things that really haunt him are the deaths of his parents and Jason Todd, and the initial stages of his full recovery from having his spine broken. Those items withstanding, he still chose to continue following his pursuits with a level of clarity that was tempered by his failures and pains, despite still dealing with the villains responsible for them.

I would imagine if you routinely dealt with people willing to inflict grievous bodily harm upon you after a while someone would actually succeed. What I am willing to entertain is that after a while, you would come to understand that pain and bodily harm was part of the gig. An added bonus would be if I knew I couldn't die.


In fact, I believe that point was stated quite early in the character's development:
8/29/2007 Bank Robbery I
9/5/2007 Bank Robbery II
9/12/2007 Bank Robbery III
9/19/2007 Bank Robbery IV * Especially here

These four pages illustrate a number of features consistent with an unspoken understanding of the perils of the job. If that doesn't seem plausible, then let's examine the risks undertaken by the United States Secret Service Presidential Protective Division.

Moving past the more speculative aspects of the character's mindset, the bottom line is that it is the author's choice in how the characters react. I was a bit...motivated(?)...to reflect on your choice of words. Frankly, I think that it would be incorrect for you to state any and all motivations about characters you don't write without asking what is going on. These comics are short glimpses into a larger conceptual reality, and it can be a daunting task to accurately explain every facet of each character. I felt that had I had the same thought you expressed, I probably would have worded it closer to:

"Why isn't Val expressing more anger and resentment over the established system and specifically showing more of a fevered response to The Coroner?"


I mean, that's just my view of the situation (and I would say you absolutely have a valid point) but I can't help but wonder if you are looking at the characters and assuming they have the same sense of perspective over the situation we do. If I were to speculate further, I would argue that living in a system that has established and governed protocols for "heroes" that someone would still conform to that system most of the time, even if you don't like it. I don't especially like how the company I work for is run, but feeling like I am under-compensated and under-appreciated is not the same as calling my District manager and telling him to get bent. I am not saying there are not circumstances where I wouldn't do just that, but getting there requires something far and beyond unreasonably expected of the job. There are cases where that happens, but I don't think that Val specifically is in that frame of mind, however I am not the person who would decide that...the authors are. That being said, I would have to ask myself if the nature of my reality was the same as Val's, would I find things so out of line that I would hold the system responsible?

I would say not so, since in recent pages she even advocates for the system as flawed as it is. She doesn't like her place in the system, but that itself doesn't make the system at fault.

All I mean to suggest is that maybe ask them for feedback before expressing outright dissatisfaction. This is a small venue, I don't think you'd have a hard time getting a response.

[davidj]

Aug 11, 2011 11:39:59 GMT -5 phantom64 said:

Now she just got horribly tortured by an insane doctor. How should she react to this situation? I'll tell you: HURT AND PISSED OFF. I want to see her get into someones face about the fact that she was TORTURED and ALMOST KILLED, and she's still not considered "hero material" I want to see her tell off that Hero Agent guy about the fact she's almost died hundreds of times because her "hero" is next to useless, and why, despite the fact she's proven herself to be one of the most capable crime fighters in the series, is she stuck in the back row protecting someone who can't fight even the lamest of villains without her help.
.

Actually I think she likes her personal situation for the most part. Mackenzie is her odd couple friend, and she doesn't deal with the nuisance of following orders because Mackenzie is too flaky to give them. She's got the lifestyle of a superhero without having to deal with the physical appearance expectations. The business with the Coroner could have happened just as easily to her if she'd been an official hero and the Coroner himself is outside the organized hero/villain system.